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Royal Visits in Nepal from 1876

Printed From: Rainer's Stampcorner
Category: Nepal
Forum Name: Nepal Postmarks and Postal History
Forum Description: Please use for the discussion of Postmarks and Postal History
URL: http://www.fuchs-online.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=119
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Topic: Royal Visits in Nepal from 1876
Posted By: Ed Gosnell
Subject: Royal Visits in Nepal from 1876
Date Posted: 19 May 2011 at 2:51am
I have recently obtained a cover which I believe is associated with the 1876 British Royal Hunt in Nepal.  According to Dr. Hellrigl, the British Prince of Wales joined Prime Minister Jang Bahadur on a two week hunt from February 20 to March 5, 1876.  Only two covers each bearing Dr. Hellrigl's B75 duplex cancel are known from the camp.  Both are dated February 24.  My cover (shown below) was sent to the camp from Rajputana and has a first arrival camp postmark dated February 25.  Am I correct in assuming that this cover is genuine and a new discovery?  Any comments or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks, Ed Gosnell
 
 
 
 


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Ed Gosnell



Replies:
Posted By: Leo
Date Posted: 26 May 2011 at 12:24am
I think it is an incoming cover to the camp while the Prince of Wales was in attendance.  Great find.  I have the better of the two covers sent from the camp and will post a scan as soon as I can get the cover out of my safe deposit box. 

Leo Martyn


Posted By: Ed Gosnell
Date Posted: 27 May 2011 at 4:18am
Dear Leo,
Thanks for the comments. I look forward to seeing your cover.
Best regards, Ed


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Ed Gosnell


Posted By: colinscovers
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 6:46am
Dear Ed
 
That is a lovely cover. I collect GB royal visit postmarks on cover and this is the first cancel of the collection being the Prince of Wales (later Edward VII ) visit.
 
I have only just joined the forum but will try and scan my items later.  If yours ever needs a new home ............Wink


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Colin
Collector of Royal Visits on cover


Posted By: Ed Gosnell
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 7:23am
Dear Colin,
Thanks for the compliment.  
Best regards, Ed
 


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Ed Gosnell


Posted By: Ed Gosnell
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 7:50am
Dear Colin,
 
You might also find these of interest.  They are from the 1911 Royal visit to Nepal.  They are a pair of items that were sent to the same address in England.  The front and back of both items are shown.
 
 
 


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Ed Gosnell


Posted By: colinscovers
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 9:08pm
Dear Ed
 
2 more very nice covers. I do indeed collect material from this Durbar and there are many mnay cancels for it. The King Emporers was used whilst at the Durbar but is used into mid January 1912 whilst he went on another of his tiger shooting expeditions. I do not have one as late as this.
As well as material I also want to get information to aid my writing up. If you have any details on the 1876 whlist in Nepal or indeed any other I would be very pleased to hear from you.
 


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Colin
Collector of Royal Visits on cover


Posted By: colinscovers
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 9:23pm
Hi Ed
 
Not sure if you will see these clear enough but these are my two well worn covers from the 1876 tour. One has the camp and the other the delivery mark.
 
 
 


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Colin
Collector of Royal Visits on cover


Posted By: colinscovers
Date Posted: 20 June 2011 at 9:33pm
Hi
 
Probably hijacked this thread but the final royal visit cover i have from Nepal is much later for 1961. A few came up on ebay at the same time and do get listed in higgins and guage but other than that I know nothing about it. Was the cancel for the royal party? H & G says only 200 done but why. It does confuse me
 
Colin


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Colin
Collector of Royal Visits on cover


Posted By: Ed Gosnell
Date Posted: 21 June 2011 at 1:45am
Dear Colin and anyone else following this thread,
 
Great covers!  Thanks for posting the pictures.  I was unaware that these exisited.  If anyone else has material from any of the royal hunting camps, I would be most appreciative if they would also send pictures.  It would be nice to see examples of what is out there.
 
The "Hotel Royal" postmark was to commemorate a visit by Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip to Nepal in 1961.  They were in country from February 26 to March 1.  There were three postmarks including the one that you show for the Hotel Royal.  They were all similar in appearance.  The second is inscribed "Royal Guest House Post Office"; and the third is inscribed "Meghauli Royal Camp."  The Hotel and Guest House types can be found with the dates for all four days.  The Camp postmark is only found dated February 28.  The camp was in the same general area as the 1876 and 1911 camps.   A fairly large hunt was organized for the British and Nepalese royals using 305 elephants (over 600 were used in 1911).  A tiger and rhino were killed.  The envelope used for your cover was supposedly not actually issued for general use until 1967 although 200 were supposedly put on sale specifically for the Queen's visit in 1961.  A handstamp reading, "To Anglo-Nepal Friendship" was also supposed to be applied to all mail posted from Kathmandu for the four days of the visit.  
 
I have a couple of other royal camp items that I will post pictures of on this site over the next couple of days.
 
Best regards, Ed Gosnell
 


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Ed Gosnell


Posted By: Rainer
Date Posted: 21 June 2011 at 9:06pm

A wonderful display of items here.., unfortunately, i only can show a Nepal 4 Anna stamp with Royal Camp Postmark.



Posted By: colinscovers
Date Posted: 21 June 2011 at 10:18pm
Another postcard from after the 1911 Durbar. Some thought this was the main reason of the visit. He was longer shooting than he was actually at the Durbar.
 
 
Are the other postmarks for the 1961 easy to come by? You have expanded my wants list now. I am still confused as to how a card released in 1967 was used in 1961.


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Colin
Collector of Royal Visits on cover


Posted By: Ed Gosnell
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 3:35am
Dear Colin,
All three cancels are scarce to very rare.  The Hotel Royal is the most common but is still fairly scarce.  The Guest House is rare.  The Camp postmark is very rare; I have never seen one offered for sale.  If you assume that envelopes were cancelled in equal quantities at each post office on each possible day, you would have 4 days of use for the Hotel, 4 days for the Guest House and 1 day for the Camp giving 9 possible post office/sales days.  Only one out of nine such days would apply to the Camp example.  Divide 9 into the 200 total supposedly issued; and you get roughly 23.  Double this quantity because the Camp would probably have had a greater than average usage for its single day; and you get an estimate of 45 to 50 covers for the Camp post office. (Based on what I have seen offered for sale, this estimate is probably a bit high.)  A reasonible estimate for the Hotel post office would then logically follow as about 125 to 140 and for the Guest House as about 75.   Of course, a number of envelopes were probably lost or destroyed resulting in a somewhat lower number of each type still in existence. 
 
I have been told that the 12 pice envelope was printed to meet a rate change that was planed for 1961-2 but which did not actually occur until 1967.  Most envelopes were supposedly held in the treasury until needed in 1967 except for the few that were philatelically used for of the British visit.  I do not know for sure if this story is true; but it at least sounds plausable.
Best regards, Ed Gosnell


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Ed Gosnell


Posted By: Ed Gosnell
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 2:00pm
I thought that I would expand the subject matter of this thread a bit by showing examples of hunting camp mail not connected to the British visits.  These are pages from an exhibit of Nepalese Seals, Cancellations and Postmarks 1795 to 1911 that I am currently working on.
 


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Ed Gosnell


Posted By: colinscovers
Date Posted: 27 June 2011 at 10:43am
Ed
You made me go back to my file for this tour as it is one I have not written up yet, though may do so soon with all the information you are kindly giving me. I cannot recall actually getting these though I did purchase a large lot , mainly of Pakistan cancels, and may not have recognised the significance of them.
 
 
 
However they now give other questions. The camp one is dated the 27th. You say it was only used on the 28th. The date for the guest house seems way out unless I am reading it wrong.
I have found I have a duplicate of the Hotel cancel.


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Colin
Collector of Royal Visits on cover


Posted By: colinscovers
Date Posted: 27 June 2011 at 10:47am
These are the Anglo Nelpal covers I have. Very similar apart from the quality of the paper.
 
 


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Colin
Collector of Royal Visits on cover


Posted By: colinscovers
Date Posted: 27 June 2011 at 10:50am
I also have what seem to be presentation cards but one on pink card and the othe more of a parchment. Presumably privately produced items?
 
 
 
 
Ed sorry for bringing the tone of the thread down but I have nothing like the seals you showed


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Colin
Collector of Royal Visits on cover


Posted By: Ed Gosnell
Date Posted: 04 July 2011 at 6:04am
Dear Colin,
Nice Material!  The information that I was quoting was from a book picturing the fabulous collection of Dr. Armand Singer.  He shows several covers from the Queen's visit including the postmarks that you show.  He notes that the camp postmark was supposedly limited to the single day.  However, I just noticed that Colin Hepper's handbook on modern cancellations pictures a cover with your date.  Obviously the camp postmark was used for at least two days rather than the one given by Dr. Singer.  I have no idea why your other cover has the 1963 date.  I can find no reference why this postmark should exist with such a late date.    One of the wonderful things about collecting Nepal is that unexpected things seem to pop up on a regular basis.  Hopefully one of the other forum members may be able to answer this question.  The two mountain stamps were of course issued during the Queen's visit which is why they have the "To Anglo Nepal Friendship" mark.  I believe that starting with the UPU set in 1959 official folders were available on the first day of issue.  Your examples may be the official ones for the mountain stamps.  I do not collect the folders and do not know for sure.  Again hopefully someone can give us a certain answer.
Best regards, Ed Gosnell


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Ed Gosnell


Posted By: Leo
Date Posted: 09 July 2011 at 5:37pm
Scans of my 1876 Camp cover.

Leo


Posted By: colinhepper
Date Posted: 11 July 2011 at 4:01pm

I am trying to help Leo out, this is a scan of his cover.   Colin Hepper




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colinhepper


Posted By: colinhepper
Date Posted: 11 July 2011 at 4:03pm

This is Leo's other scan.

Colin


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colinhepper


Posted By: colinscovers
Date Posted: 12 July 2011 at 10:56pm
 
 
I have tried to show a larger copy. Hope it works. Such a lovely cover deserves to be seen
 
Would the cancel be one duplex cancel or is the single circle and bars two seperate items? They look to be together but on my cover they are seperate.
 
Colin


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Colin
Collector of Royal Visits on cover


Posted By: colinhepper
Date Posted: 14 July 2011 at 6:28am
I believe The Royal Guest House Post Office was used occassionally for visits of other VIP's to Nepal although I only have a 'philatelic' cover dated 11 May 1963.

Colin Hepper


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colinhepper


Posted By: Leo
Date Posted: 19 July 2011 at 8:23pm
I believe it is a duplex type cancel.  Hellrigl describes it as such.

Leo


Posted By: gandarva
Date Posted: 30 July 2011 at 11:12am
Dear Ed,

may be these pictures are interesting for you:

1. Nice card Wateren No. 18 (damaged by a hungry worm):

http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/Postkarte-Wateren-18%282a%29.html

2. Postcard “Hunting Camp 1921”:

http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Ansichtskarten/Karte-540.html

(click on “großes Bild” to find an explanation)

3. Some more pictures of my Nepal- website:

http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/CoronationDurbar.html
http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/George-TigerShoot1.html
http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/George-TigerShoot2.html

4. Queen Elisabeth and Charles following the Royal tradition of visiting Nepal - not hunting!!!

http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/Elizabeth.html
http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/Charles.html

Greetings from germany,
Johannes

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http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de" rel="nofollow - http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de


Posted By: Rainer
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 6:52am

I just found the shown cover on ebay and thought to post the picture before the auction disappears.



Posted By: Ed Gosnell
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 2:23am
I checked out the cover on eBay.  Also there is a bit of a prolem with it.  Acccording to Dr. Hellrigl, the prince was in Nepal from December 14th to the 21st.  This cover is dated in November.   

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Ed Gosnell


Posted By: Rainer
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 6:41am

Dear Ed,

 

Thanks for your comment. Since the cover is dated November, does this mean the cover is "bogus" or has the cancel just been used at a later date, maybe a favor cancel?



Posted By: Leo
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 3:45pm
I believe that these Camp cancels were used during the Princes of Wales various trips  through out India as well as Nepal.  The date of the cancel determines the location.  The cover is genuine.

Leo


Posted By: gandarva
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 10:49am
Not just philatelic - but nice: on the occasion of the journey of Prince Albert Edward, later King Edward VII, to India in 1876, a Souvenir CDV-photo was sold:

http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/Albert_Edward%281876%29.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/Albert_Edward(1876).html

Johannes


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http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de" rel="nofollow - http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de


Posted By: colinscovers
Date Posted: 02 October 2011 at 8:25pm
This does not quite fit with the heading which possibly should be altered to Royal Visits in Nepal from 1876 if possible. (Done by Administrator).
 
The Prince of Wales left Portsmouth on 26th October 1921 finally arriving in Bombay 17th November having called at Gibraltar, Malta, , Egypt, Suez and Aden en route. He travelled India extensively until 17th March 1922. From here he went to Ceylon, Malaya, Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, Manila Brunei, and Penang before returning to Plymouth 20th June 1922. A trip of 8 months.
 
This is where you will have to forgive my lack of knowledge of Nepal. From the book The Kings Story the itinery says he went to Bhikan Thori 14th to 21st December 1921, wereas another says he met the Maharaja of Nepal at Thikna Thori and then spent a week enjoying a tour of Nepel
 
There are 4 things to look four. The common cancel as the one above. My example below is on POW stationary and was sent by one of the military personel.
 
 
There is then a circle which was said to be for registered mail but often appears on normal mail but is scarcer than the first type. This is shown on the cover below for which I have the registered receipt to go with it. (Good old George King)
 
 
There is also a delivery mark ( dated 22nd Dec !) and a postage due
 
 
I have never considered looking for covers dated in Nepal. Would you class these as desirable during the dates in Nepal?
 
Looking through photocopies I have I did find one dated in Nepal and a closer look makes me think I maybe should have aquired it. Can anyone shed any light on the signature in the corner?
 
 
 
Whilst not Nepal I hope the aboves helps
 
Colin
 


Posted By: Ed Gosnell
Date Posted: 23 January 2012 at 7:37pm
I have just added a section on Prime Minister Hunting Camp Mail to my web site at Nepalstamps.com.  A number of the covers shown here plus some new material are shown along with some additional information which may be of interest.

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Ed Gosnell


Posted By: Ed Gosnell
Date Posted: 06 March 2012 at 1:19am

For the record, both the Nepalese and British/Indian Royal Camp Postmarks of 1911 were forged as shown on the cover pictured below.  The forged Nepalese marking is a tiny bit larger than the genuine.  The bottoms of the G and the R in the GRI inscription on the British postmark do not overlap on the forged mark as they do on the genuine.  This lack of overlap can just barely be seen inside the red square on the cover below.  The forgeries are always dated 26 December.  Dr. Hellrigl has good illustrations in his book on the British/Indian Post Office in Nepal.  This cover appears to have been a genuine old cover addressed to London to which the Indian stamps and postmarks have been added over the original markings.  A small bit of an original postmark peeks through between the right most Indian and the Nepalese stamp. 

 


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Ed Gosnell


Posted By: gandarva
Date Posted: 20 April 2012 at 10:09am
Those who are interested in the Royal Visits in Nepal might be interested in the part "Big Game Hunting" of my website:

http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/BigGameHunting.html" rel="nofollow - Big Game Hunting (German)

Maybe this is the english google-translation:

http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bilder-aus-nepal.de%2FPages%2FGeschichte%2FBigGameHunting.html&act=url" rel="nofollow - Big Game Hunting (English)

I hope the translation works,

Johannes


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http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de" rel="nofollow - http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de


Posted By: Ed Gosnell
Date Posted: 20 April 2012 at 2:57pm
A reaaly nice section, Johannes.  I enjoyed reading it. Excellent information.
Best regards, Ed Gosnell


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Ed Gosnell


Posted By: gandarva
Date Posted: 04 September 2012 at 2:37pm
Hi Ed,

there are a lot of news in the "Big Game Hunting“-section:

http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/BigGameHunting.html" rel="nofollow - German (original)

http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bilder-aus-nepal.de%2FPages%2FGeschichte%2FBigGameHunting.html&act=url" rel="nofollow - google-English

I hope you like it,

Johannes


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http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de" rel="nofollow - http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de


Posted By: gandarva
Date Posted: 13 September 2015 at 1:45pm
Dear all,

as this thread about the Royal Visits in Nepal is not OT, I want to send a link to the corresponding part of my Nepal website. Sorry, the text is written in German. Nevertheless some photos are worth to see. Please click onto the small photos to get them bigger:

http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/BigGameHunting.html" rel="nofollow - Big Game Hunting

Best wishes,
Johannes

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http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de" rel="nofollow - http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de


Posted By: colinhepper
Date Posted: 14 September 2015 at 12:29pm
I enjoyed reading it.  Well done Johannes

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colinhepper


Posted By: colinscovers
Date Posted: 23 November 2015 at 9:53pm

Hi


I have finally managed to get a cover from Nepal for the 1911 King Emperors visit following his attendance at the Durbar. It looks like there is a crease at the top right but this is more of a wrinkle in the paper as not on the reverse.

All I need now is some information to help me write it up. Can anyone help?

Thanks


Colin

http://s994.photobucket.com/user/colinscovers/media/1911%20Coronation%20Durbar/Nepal%20Camp.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">



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Colin
Collector of Royal Visits on cover


Posted By: gandarva
Date Posted: 24 November 2015 at 7:46am
Dear Colin,

congratulation to your cover. In my exhibit I have a similar cover and I just show my description.

Best wishes,
Johannes




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http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de" rel="nofollow - http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de


Posted By: gemtree
Date Posted: 20 January 2016 at 6:27am
I have just acquired a rather interesting cover. It doesn't look like much. However, note that it was cancelled with a Viceroy's Camp postmark dated April 1, 1901. This mobile post office accompanied the Viceroy on his tours around India. Lord Curzon, the Indian Viceroy, was hunting in Nepal for three weeks from March 27 until mid April in 1901. This cover was thus mailed from his hunting camp in Nepal in the same manner as camp mail was sent from the British royals' camps in 1876, 1911, and 1921. Has anyone seen another example from this camp in Nepal? It is addressed to the Nepalese Commander-in-Chief Chandra Shumsher Rana in Kathmandu and has a British Residency receiving postmark dated April 4 on the reverse side. Histories which mention the 1901 Viceroy's trip to Nepal list Chandra as the Nepalese host. However, he is not pictured in the official British photographs of the hunt although other high ranking Nepalese are. This cover seems to imply that he was not present at the beginning of the hunt.





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gemtree


Posted By: gandarva
Date Posted: 20 January 2016 at 7:24am
Dear Ed, a fine and rare cover. Thank you for sharing.

The official host was Prime Minister Deva Shumsher, but Chandra Shamsher joined the Indian Viceroy. It seems you are right, Chandra was in Kathmandu during the first days of the hunt.

Lord Curzon became Viceroy of India in 1899. Soon Maharaja Bir Shumsher invited Lord Curzon for a tiger hunt  to Nepal, and Lord Curzon confirmed his coming on January 2, 1901. Unfortunately after all the preparations were completed, Bir Shumsher became ill and died on March 4, 1901. His successor Prime Minister Deva Shumsher, a shy and frail person, sent his younger brother Chandra Shamsher to join the Indian Viceroy hunting tigers in the Terai. The hunt took place from March 29 to April 17, 1901.

For a photographic documentation of this tiger hunt with Lord Curzon the renowned photo studio “Herzog & Higgins” was asked. P. A. Herzog and P. Higgins had opened a photo studio in Mhow (Central India) in 1894, which existed until 1921. As official photographers they were asked for many important occasions at the time, so at receptions, state visits, etc. The photographic results of the tiger hunt in 1901 in the Terai is the album “HE the Viceroy's Shooting tour. Nepal, Terai, April 1901”, which includes 120 photos. When the hunt was finished, P. A. Herzog wrote two postcards from Kathmandu to Basel in Switzerland and to Mhow (Central India) respectively on the same day, Apr. 26, 1901.

http://www.luminous-lint.com/app/photographer/1_Herzog_Higgins/A/" rel="nofollow - Studio “Herzog & Higgins”

http://britishphotohistory.ning.com/photo/herzog-and-higgins-studio-mhow" rel="nofollow - photo studio in Mhow

http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/Herzog-Higgins-Fotos.html" rel="nofollow - Some more “Herzog & Higgins” photos from Nepal

http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/Postkarte-Wateren-12%2810%29V-Geschichte.html" rel="nofollow - Postcard sent to Switzerland
“Squared-circle”-Postmark (Hellrigl B14) dated “25 APR 01” (Apr. 25, 1901 - !)
SEA POST OFFICE: May 4, 1901, Arrival: Basel May 17, 1901

http://www.bilder-aus-nepal.de/Pages/Geschichte/Postkarte-Wateren-15%282%29V-Geschichte.html" rel="nofollow - Postcard sent to India
“Squared-circle”-Postmark (Hellrigl B 14) dated “25 AP. 01” (April 25, 1901 - !)
Reverse side arrival: Mhow April 30, 1901

So these postcards were sent from
postcards from Kathmandu. I never saw other mail sent from this hunt. Best wishes,
Johannes


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